official Covenant Forum

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and I don't think it is simply just a licensing issue like Sharon stated (although that is a big contributing factor).

Just to clarify, i was speaking specifically about the visibility of European industrial acts in the American industrial scene in the early to mid-'90s, not the overall visibility of industrial acts in the American music scene (then or today).

When it comes to the visibility of European industrial artists in the American industrial scene in the early to mid-'90s, i can assure you it did have mostly to do with licensing. But Erica is right, not just because the CDs were cheaper and more available, but because the US labels also pushed those bands more in the US market (club promotion, radio servicing, and in some cases, tour support). Nowadays, that's not so true, but back then it was.

Also, i just want to point out that Cruxshadows beating Beyonce on the Billboard chart was actually somewhat deceptive. Those charts only cover week-to-week orders (not sell-through) in one sliver of the market. Actually, Tom Shear explained it on the Side-Line forums better than i can: "It is based on sales, but as I said, it is largely a matter of lucky timing. For instance, let's say Beyonce ships 100,000 copies of her new single on the week of September 1st. The stores are already flooded with her release from the previous week and re-orders the following week are likely to be very small, if they occur at all. Therefore, if the Cruxshadows ship 3000 copies the next week, so long as there aren't a ton of other bands doing Beyonce like numbers that week, they can still make the chart."

Trust me, if The Cruxshadows were actually selling more than Beyonce, everybody in this fucking scene would be making *a lot* more money.

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Originally posted by Kyron5

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and I don't think it is simply just a licensing issue like Sharon stated (although that is a big contributing factor).

Just to clarify, i was speaking specifically about the visibility of European industrial acts in the American industrial scene in the early to mid-'90s, not the overall visibility of industrial acts in the American music scene (then or today).

When it comes to the visibility of European industrial artists in the American industrial scene in the early to mid-'90s, i can assure you it did have mostly to do with licensing. But Erica is right, not just because the CDs were cheaper and more available, but because the US labels also pushed those bands more in the US market (club promotion, radio servicing, and in some cases, tour support). Nowadays, that's not so true, but back then it was.

Yeah. And I was speaking more generally about why Goth/Industrial acts (domestic and foreign) don't have as much visibility in the American market. I don't think it's because people just don't like the music.. because similar music has been and still is popular. I don't think it's because people are "afraid" of what they think the genre represents because extremists MM and Korn, etc have been successful. I think it's because major US labels have latched onto the success stories and made them.

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Originally posted by erichazann
Yes. Long Island, as LI.

From my understanding, the time before last (kinda recently) Albion was not really closing.. it was just hype because Downtime (the venue) was changing ownership.. or it moved nights or something. Big deal. Now, it has closed because the new owners are jerks.. I don't know if they purposely were jerks to get Albion to leave so they could bring in a more profitable night, or if they are just jerks in general. *shrug*

Yes Pyramid is big into the 80s/wave/gay thingie. We used to go there... eekk. 7 years ago?? for Exodus? Can't recall.. but one friday night we had less than 100 peeps.. the gay night on sat. had over 500.. guess what? no more goth night!

Sorry for being offtopic, but at least it's not about sweat pants! ;o

And I hope by the time Covenant comes back to NY for their next full tour, Clas will be back.

Sorry I'm so delayed in responding- I've been having late nights out lately- doing the scenester thing don't you know. Being a superficial American can be such hard work!


It's so weird to me that NYC's goth/electro scene isn't larger, aside from the now-defunct (though probably temporarily so) Albion...


What's in Long Island?

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Originally posted by lushmachine
I have to say that Chicago also has a "see and be seen" element to it but it's not so much visual as it is to "make an appearance" at a spot. There's a large amount of people that show up to clubs wearing whatever random jeans or just throw on something dark without much thought because they are there for the music. Personally, I go out to dance. Socializing comes in a far second for me. However it's not uncommon for people to hop from one place to another just to say hello to a few people even if there's a long distance between them and their ultimate destination. This importance of consistency at attending certain nights is quite popular.

Thing is, here, the Dallas-Ft. Worth Metroplex is soooo spread out that sometimes the best and most convenient way to catch up with friends and socialize is when we all meet at a club. A significant amount of time is spent in the outside areas, engaging in good conversation. And then peppered intermittently with the usual "OMG I love this song I gotta daaaaaance hold that thought I'll be right back!" :lol:

If you're me, anyway.

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Also nice is the freedom of dancing style. There is a rather "Chicago-style" dance but it's very close to those of other places too. Ultimately no one cares if you want to hop up and down for two hours or if you're going to spin around and do the Grapevine afterwards.

HA- the Grapevine... I wonder if it's similar to our Picking Cherries here... then there's Waiting Tables and Searching for the Contact Lens...

I remember in Poland, Marishka was commenting how Americans dance strangely, like spiders, lol. I said yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about! Comparatively it is quite different. And I hadn't thought of it that way before but yeah, I guess it kind of does remind one of spiders...

I always find the different international styles and articulation of the same basic subculture to be very interesting. Theme and variation. Dancing is a part of that of course but other expressions also come to mind.

Something more related to the previous topic of this thread…

(being somewhat wary of this as I have heard nothing official)

Covenant + Haujobb in Novosibirsk?

I thought this was a rather nice video.

But at the 3:29 mark, something very strange happened which made me break out laughing.

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Originally posted by Vorbedacht
I thought this was a rather nice video.

But at the 3:29 mark, something very strange happened which made me break out laughing.

Ahahahaha that's awesome.

I'm guessing that was filmed during the Haujobb tour with VNV several years back. He did that in SF as well, but he also threw in the chorus to "Stalker".

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Originally posted by Vorbedacht
I thought this was a rather nice video.

But at the 3:29 mark, something very strange happened which made me break out laughing.

:tongue: :perfekt: